DISCUSSIONS ABOUT ZOROASTRIANISM
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# 46) Q: Weren't the Greek Alexander the Great, called Alexander the Cursed One, among zoroastrians once? Because of his plundering and rapings toward the women of the persians in Susa? Why is that you so honour the prophet Zarathustra, but deny the caninical truth of those later avestan writings? It's like denying those other prophets in the old testament, with exception of Moses! It's like denying the apostles in new testament, but not Jesus! It sounds insane in my point of wiew. Is that the reason why you don't condemn rape, abortion, bi-homosexuality(In fact true zoroastrianism is even more condemning toward that, than is any christian church) and so on? Anyone who commits them shall not have forgiveness, neither in this life, or afterlife! Perhaps even robbery and murder too!

Because leaving out other scriptures of the holy Avesta, inspired by righteous angels? Because the very history does have a different point of wiew in the cases of the early kings, like Darius I and Xerxes, for example. They could be very cruel too, you know. So, realize, that there is eternal hell for the sinners and eternal paradise with eternal love/marriage for all the righteous ones! There is also resurrection, but no reincarnation(it's a heretic though of daeva worshipping hindoos)! In my point of wiew, zoroastrianism became corrupt after the Parthian rule and not before. Because the god of heaven Zervan were condemned afterwards, who is indeed more similar with Yahweh of Hebreans and more important similar with An/Anu of Sumero-Babylonian origin, than with Ahuramazda. In fact both Christianity and zoroastrianism originates from the land of Sumer.

Ahuramazda is nothing more than the Nefilim Marduk, who is even the same as that egyptian Ra by his other name IM.KUR.GAR.RA! But true christians do have some remarkable similarity with true zoroastrianism on moral issues, because father and daughter relationships/marriage were never outlawed according to neither the bibel or avesta. Don't know about the liberal false teachers among christians and zoroastrians but it's true. Then do you even know what is the seed of the Bull? Do you know the laws of heaven (Job38:32-33)? Don't you even see the difference between a demon possessed man and a person who is in fact a daeva in his/her very person? A incarnate demon of the unholy air elemental perhaps.

From a angry fundamentalist!

A: Many questions in one post, but that is OK. Alexander, was indeed called the Accursed, by the Persians. Isn't funny, how one man's hero is another man's fiend? Certainly, Alex, was  the typical, disgusting ego maniac, would be world conqueror, that shows up in human history from time to time.  His destruction of libraries and the torching of Persepolis were a crime against humanity. However, to be fair, Xerxes had burned Athens first. As a Zarathushtrian, you ought to know that our actions have consequences. Xerxes burning of Athens, spawned Greek hatred and resulted in the revenge burning of Persepolis, in my opinion, of course.

It is precisely because we honor Ashu Zarathushtra the Manthran, not prophet, of Iran, that we must defend his message from the additions and perversions of the Latter Religion. A good three hundred plus years separates, according to scholars, Zarathushtra from the latter Avesta. In the Latter Avesta, Haoma, which Zarathushtra denounced as a Filthy Intoxicant, is re-introduced. Aryan Gods which Zarathushtra called Daevas, were re-introduced under A TERM NEVER USED IN GATHAS. THE VERY LORD OF CREATION IS PICTURED BEGGING THESE DAEVAS FOR BOONS IN THE YASHTS.

 Most of the latter literature is in complete contradiction with the teaching of the Gathas and their spirit. This an accepted , indeed indisputable fact, by most scholars and I mean ALL but one or two. It is seen by just reading the Gathas and comparing it to the latter writings.

The question then is NOT how come we deny canonical status to these latter writings. The question is how come those, that are enamored with the Latter Avesta, cannot see the obvious contradictions? These are undeniable, as I have already said. So what is it? Are the Gathas wrong, when theydenounce the old Gods? Are they wrong, when they condemn Haoma? Are they wrong, when they present a Universal message? Zarathushtra's own words are preserved in the Gathas, this is universally agreed by all. So either Zarathushtra lied, or the UNKNOWN authors of the Latter Avesta were mistaken, or worse, out to destroy the original message and bend it to their purposes.

You cannot compare Moses and the OT prophets to Zarathushtra. Why? Aside from the fact that Moses and Zarathushtra taught different things, Moses was not the only person recognized in the OT as a prophet. Zarathushtra is always recognized as the First Ahu and Ratu and the ONLY Manthran in the Gathas AND even in the Latter Avesta.  The writers of the Latter Avesta, did not use their own names and, in fact wrote books (some of them thousands of years distanced from Zarathushtra and his time), using Zarathushtra's name! Why? Because they and every one else KNEW that they were not inspired. They were the average religious litigator proposing his opinions and not a Manthra from God.

To raise these god traders, who wrote much of the Latter Avesta, to the status of prophets, is an insult to all prophets, Its like making the local priest of the corner store church into a Moses, an Isaiah, a Daniel, when they were not even learned enough to understand the original language in which the Gathas were written! And so butchered,as many scholars have proven, their translations of the Gathas.

Rape and abortion are clearly against Asha and are thus Druj , one being a violent imposition and the other we believe is denying  life to a human soul and we do not endorsed them , indeed, in principle we are opposed them. Homo-Sexuality is a sexual  predisposition for a behavior that is not by itself condemned or censored by Zarathushtra.  As a matter of fact, Homo-Sexuality is seen in nature among several animal species.  Going back to abortion, though, in principle we oppose it, but, as Zarathushtis, we must respect people's beliefs enough,  not to force ours on them. We have to oppose the act of abortion because its not life affirming and denies life, but we must do so by persuasion and teaching and not by sending mothers and doctors to jail .

Zarathushtra did not condemn Homo-Sexuality and did not even make a passing reference to it, or to sex either, so the fact that we do not give authority to the Latter Avesta, has nothing to do with what we teach. You are deluding yourself if you think so.

As to the 'truth' of Zoroastrianism condemning homosexuality, let me point out to you and to all that hear of this, the facts very clearly. Zoroastrianism does not condemn homosexuality. A perverted, un-enforceable, ( unless you think that giving some one 1000 lashes for killing a pregnant dog is enforceable) and definitely Post- Zarathushtra books, called the Vendidad, something akin to Leviticus, but even more ante-diluvium and cruel, calls the act of MURDERING homo-sexuals, a 'meritorious deed', and calls Homosexuals worthy of death. Something that, apparently, you endorse?

If you truly believe that such an statement is 'scripture' and Authoritative or canonical , then  explain why Zarathushtra never condemns ANY ONE. (or calls them worthy of death, 'pesho-tanu', let alone says it of Homo-Sexuals) In fact, explain, if you can, why he only condemns the use of weapons in
self defense, or don't you know?  Utter silliness, such as this, about Homo-Sexuality, its but ONE more reason why the Latter Avesta  IS NOT AN INSPIRED BOOK and is TOTALLY undeserving of being considered canonical or authoritative!!

Forgiveness, in the true teachings of Zarathushtra, as opposed to the over heated imaginations of the unknown authors of much of the Latter Avesta, is to be sought from the party that has been hurt and/or offended. Since it is impossible for man to hurt and offend God, forgiveness is to be sought from injured mortals and not from THE LORD. Repentance, for your information and that of the Abrahamics, (who, by the way, you so resemble in your theology), is a change of mind about what we are doing, saying, and/or, thinking. In fact, in the Bible the word Metanoia means exactly that and has been translated as repentance.

No book of the Latter Avesta is inspired by any one, specially, not by 'holy angels', who do not exist in the Gathas. Moreover, no book of the Avesta claims to be inspired by any 'holy angel'  (or any one else for that matter), so please tell us where do you get these ideas?

There is no eternal heaven or hell, in the Gathas. This together with  your reference to: " ... eternal paradise with eternal love/marriage for all the righteous ones! ",  brands you as an Islam influenced  and very confused follower of the Latter Avesta version of Zoroastrianism. Incidentally, there is no book in any recognizable Zoroastrian religious era, Gatha,  Latter Avesta, or Sassanian, that EVER says anything like: " ... eternal marriage ... " That , my confused friend, comes straight out of Islam and the Houris. Next you will be saying, that Zarathushtra promised even more Virgins than Mohammed did!!

Resurrection is not EVER mentioned in the Gathas. The Gathas do, however, mention Soul Return several times. This does not, necessarily mean re-incarnation, however, it could mean simply a return to Drugo Demana, that is, an existence (spiritual or corporeal) to a world where wrongfulness abides, that is, it exists. In fact resurrection does not appear in the Veda either, which means it was not an Eastern Iranian belief. Since Zarathushtra was from Eastern Iran, there is no question but that this
belief did not originate with him.

The Hindus might have adopted re-incarnation under the mistaken impression that Soul Return HAD to mean re-incarnation. In any case, its not a heretical belief, since one of the ways of Soul Return, might be, re-incarnation. But in any case, if it is a Hindu created belief, it is not a heresy,  just a different religion. By the way, Mobed's and Dastur's, such as Azargoshasp and Taraporewalla, both of them linguists also, believed that the Gathas taught re-incarnation. Were they heretics, too?

Zoroastrianism has nothing to do with Sumer. Sumer was in lower Mesopotamia. Zarathushtra is from Chorasmia (Today's Northern Afghanistan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan). Sumerians were Semites, Zarathushtra was an Aryan. He spoke Gathic, a language/dialect that has been successfully
identified as Eastern Iranian. The Medians and the Persians could not readily understand this language. Indeed his language died out long before there was a Media or a Persia.
.

Zervanism is a heresy belonging to the Latter Avesta religion. Indeed traces of it are already present in the coins and inscriptions of the latter Achaemenids. So it is Pre-Parthian in origin. Read Zurvanism: A Zoroastrian Dilemma, by Sethner. It did not reach great acceptance till the first part of the Sassanian empire, it then had a revival in Post-Sassanian Islamic Persia, before the Tenth Century.

As to the rest of your , incoherent post, let's just say that there are  no demons, no demonic possession and that a fundamentalist, is a person who follows the fundamentals of a religion. Since the Gathas are tie Fundamentals of the Good Religion, you are no fundamentalist. You are simply  someone, who has bought the idea that what contradicts the teachings of the founder of a religion, ANY religion , can be accepted and held as canonical, authoritative and scripture. I submit to you, my confused friend, that such a thing is totally and demonstrably illogical and thus invalid and false. So re-direct your anger, to those that sold you this bill of rotten goods.

Incidentally, if you had read the Gathas, you  would had known that Zarathushtra said:

" Put down anger, check violence, those of you who wish to strengthen the promotion of Good Mind through Righteousness, because a beneficent man, is associated with this. Lord, his companions dwell in Your abode. " [Spenta Mainyu Gatha 2 verse 7]

So, by being angry, you are not being asha like, nor good minded. Neither are you being beneficial. In fact, you are not associated with the blessed abode of the Lord! May light come to you.

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